Thursday, March 02, 2006

Opportunity

Here is your opportunity to help me out.



I am obviously missing something. Could someone please tell me who Phil Johnson is and why I should listen to him talk about anything, particularly fundamentalism? I am not a big John MacArthur follower or anything like that. Perhaps this is my problem?

9 Comments:

Anonymous nathan said...

Doesn't he coach the Lakers?

Assuming that's a genuine question: he's the director of Pastor MacArthur's Grace to You and I thought the first part of this that defines fundamentalism, evangelicalism and neo-evangelicalism was insightful. Proud to call myself an evangelical these days.

3/02/2006 11:09:00 PM  
Blogger filosofo said...

Heaven forbid we pay any attention to no-name critics of fundamentalism.

3/03/2006 03:59:00 PM  
Blogger Ryan Martin said...

very funny, filosofo.

I simply got amusement out of the "uproar" over this thing. I, being essentially unfamiliar with Johnson (other than glancing at the pictures at his blog every once in a while), was not sure where all this "hoopla" was coming from, with the BIG graphic on the Orange River and even paleo and everyone "a-buzz" and such. Perhaps I'll read what he has to say. He is certainly not discounted by my not knowing him, at which part of this was poking fun.

I am so out of it. That's the point. Everyone is abuzz about Phil Johnson, and I am not sure why.

3/03/2006 04:26:00 PM  
Anonymous bob topartzer said...

Good question and there is no reason to listen to Phil johnson. If you compare his part 1 from last year with part2 this year, you realize he has learned a little about fundamentalism in a year but still needs some guidance in a good course on the history of fundamentalism. Last year he was a fundamentalist. This year he might be implying he does not think he is. Actually, the typical student at Central, DBTS or CBTS knows more about the subject.

3/03/2006 08:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Ben said...

Ryan,

Phil probably didn't say anything you haven't already thought, so don't spend too many sleepless nights over your inexcusably pathetically uninformed state. The sport is in watching folks scurry to discredit him. It sort of reminds me of the strategy used by the political machinery of a recent presidential administration to cover for his dalliances.

Bob's missing the point. The problem is that what he believes seminary students have heard is different from the propaganda that has been disseminated to pastors for decades.

3/04/2006 01:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Josh McCarnan said...

bob it's amazing how wrong you are! What is amusing is your boldness and audacity. That's just the kind of fundamentalist attitude and jargon that causes the next generation of fundamentalists to recoil from being associated with your brand of fundamentalism. I don't believe Phil was implying what you are obviously and errantly inferring from his statements. Lastly, from ryan's own admission, a typical student at Central, DBTS or CBTS does not know more about the subject because last year when Phil did the presentation everyone who was anyone in fundamentalism was in on the discussion. Not that being a part of the discussion makes anyone better than another, but maybe just less "inexcusably and pathetically uninformed." Oh, and because Drs. Doran and Bauder were so heavily involved maybe you shouldn't lump everyone together.

3/06/2006 08:09:00 AM  
Blogger Ryan Martin said...

Okay, I am getting a little sick and tired of all the defamation going on around here . . .

Just because I'm not in the mainstream on this Phil Johnson fellow does not necessarily make me "inexcusably and pathetically uninformed." I am sure there are other factors that make that true.

3/06/2006 08:58:00 AM  
Blogger Bob M said...

Self-deprecation is so unbecoming of you, Ryan. Now, me on the the other hand, it fits quite nice. I am totally uninformed.

3/06/2006 10:35:00 PM  
Blogger Joel Tetreau said...

Ryan,

It's a fair question my brother. I apologize for my brethren who do not understand about the challenges of living in the artic north as you do. They simply are not sensitive to the fact that news simply cannot travel to Minnesota during the winter. It's not your fault - I'm hurting as I see all the criticism that is falling on you here.

Being a grateful Alum of Central and just an all-around nice guy - Let me help you with why this Johnson thing is a big deal to many.

It seems as if you compare some of things that some of the "accepted" fundy ministries are saying (such as Kevin's nice deal at Lansdale on separation including certain thoughts from Greenville and other places) and you compare that with the discussions made by Johnson and even R.C. Sproul Jr (who in his last edition of Tabletalk sides with fundamentalism over and against evangelicalism over the last century), some are coming to the conclusion that their may be a possible "relationship" (of one form or another) between the more separatistic independents and the more ballanced fundamentalists types.

An interesting new world indeed.
I call it "the brave new world." This of course is something of a Darwinian view of fundamentalism - survival of the fittest for sure!

The possibilities of such a merger - well, the energy that thought creates is fun to watch. From both those who like the idea as well as those who do not like the idea - and those who really, really don't like the idea (This group is actually the most enjoyable group to watch!)

And so, my snow-bound friend, that is why all of this (from a noisy few), is a big deal.

I on the other hand am taking this in stride. Certainly this can't be right - can you really imagine California Mac'ites - and Ohio Bible Guys - with BoJoe's - with IBCites - with Doranites - with Wisconsin People Groups (of either the Dunbar or Watertown variety), With the theological great-grand children of Clearwater - Ceaderholm - and others - all enjoying one another - in perfect harmony - Why the Kingdom would be here - Heresy I tell you! We all know it has to get worse before it gets better.

Oh well - One must learn to pace ones-self - lest one run out of energy.

Please give my warm thoughts to the dear guys there at Central.

Stay warm!

Joel Tetreau

PS - Straight Ahead!

3/07/2006 01:21:00 AM  

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Immoderate: Opportunity

Thursday, March 02, 2006

Opportunity

Here is your opportunity to help me out.



I am obviously missing something. Could someone please tell me who Phil Johnson is and why I should listen to him talk about anything, particularly fundamentalism? I am not a big John MacArthur follower or anything like that. Perhaps this is my problem?

9 Comments:

Anonymous nathan said...

Doesn't he coach the Lakers?

Assuming that's a genuine question: he's the director of Pastor MacArthur's Grace to You and I thought the first part of this that defines fundamentalism, evangelicalism and neo-evangelicalism was insightful. Proud to call myself an evangelical these days.

3/02/2006 11:09:00 PM  
Blogger filosofo said...

Heaven forbid we pay any attention to no-name critics of fundamentalism.

3/03/2006 03:59:00 PM  
Blogger Ryan Martin said...

very funny, filosofo.

I simply got amusement out of the "uproar" over this thing. I, being essentially unfamiliar with Johnson (other than glancing at the pictures at his blog every once in a while), was not sure where all this "hoopla" was coming from, with the BIG graphic on the Orange River and even paleo and everyone "a-buzz" and such. Perhaps I'll read what he has to say. He is certainly not discounted by my not knowing him, at which part of this was poking fun.

I am so out of it. That's the point. Everyone is abuzz about Phil Johnson, and I am not sure why.

3/03/2006 04:26:00 PM  
Anonymous bob topartzer said...

Good question and there is no reason to listen to Phil johnson. If you compare his part 1 from last year with part2 this year, you realize he has learned a little about fundamentalism in a year but still needs some guidance in a good course on the history of fundamentalism. Last year he was a fundamentalist. This year he might be implying he does not think he is. Actually, the typical student at Central, DBTS or CBTS knows more about the subject.

3/03/2006 08:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Ben said...

Ryan,

Phil probably didn't say anything you haven't already thought, so don't spend too many sleepless nights over your inexcusably pathetically uninformed state. The sport is in watching folks scurry to discredit him. It sort of reminds me of the strategy used by the political machinery of a recent presidential administration to cover for his dalliances.

Bob's missing the point. The problem is that what he believes seminary students have heard is different from the propaganda that has been disseminated to pastors for decades.

3/04/2006 01:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Josh McCarnan said...

bob it's amazing how wrong you are! What is amusing is your boldness and audacity. That's just the kind of fundamentalist attitude and jargon that causes the next generation of fundamentalists to recoil from being associated with your brand of fundamentalism. I don't believe Phil was implying what you are obviously and errantly inferring from his statements. Lastly, from ryan's own admission, a typical student at Central, DBTS or CBTS does not know more about the subject because last year when Phil did the presentation everyone who was anyone in fundamentalism was in on the discussion. Not that being a part of the discussion makes anyone better than another, but maybe just less "inexcusably and pathetically uninformed." Oh, and because Drs. Doran and Bauder were so heavily involved maybe you shouldn't lump everyone together.

3/06/2006 08:09:00 AM  
Blogger Ryan Martin said...

Okay, I am getting a little sick and tired of all the defamation going on around here . . .

Just because I'm not in the mainstream on this Phil Johnson fellow does not necessarily make me "inexcusably and pathetically uninformed." I am sure there are other factors that make that true.

3/06/2006 08:58:00 AM  
Blogger Bob M said...

Self-deprecation is so unbecoming of you, Ryan. Now, me on the the other hand, it fits quite nice. I am totally uninformed.

3/06/2006 10:35:00 PM  
Blogger Joel Tetreau said...

Ryan,

It's a fair question my brother. I apologize for my brethren who do not understand about the challenges of living in the artic north as you do. They simply are not sensitive to the fact that news simply cannot travel to Minnesota during the winter. It's not your fault - I'm hurting as I see all the criticism that is falling on you here.

Being a grateful Alum of Central and just an all-around nice guy - Let me help you with why this Johnson thing is a big deal to many.

It seems as if you compare some of things that some of the "accepted" fundy ministries are saying (such as Kevin's nice deal at Lansdale on separation including certain thoughts from Greenville and other places) and you compare that with the discussions made by Johnson and even R.C. Sproul Jr (who in his last edition of Tabletalk sides with fundamentalism over and against evangelicalism over the last century), some are coming to the conclusion that their may be a possible "relationship" (of one form or another) between the more separatistic independents and the more ballanced fundamentalists types.

An interesting new world indeed.
I call it "the brave new world." This of course is something of a Darwinian view of fundamentalism - survival of the fittest for sure!

The possibilities of such a merger - well, the energy that thought creates is fun to watch. From both those who like the idea as well as those who do not like the idea - and those who really, really don't like the idea (This group is actually the most enjoyable group to watch!)

And so, my snow-bound friend, that is why all of this (from a noisy few), is a big deal.

I on the other hand am taking this in stride. Certainly this can't be right - can you really imagine California Mac'ites - and Ohio Bible Guys - with BoJoe's - with IBCites - with Doranites - with Wisconsin People Groups (of either the Dunbar or Watertown variety), With the theological great-grand children of Clearwater - Ceaderholm - and others - all enjoying one another - in perfect harmony - Why the Kingdom would be here - Heresy I tell you! We all know it has to get worse before it gets better.

Oh well - One must learn to pace ones-self - lest one run out of energy.

Please give my warm thoughts to the dear guys there at Central.

Stay warm!

Joel Tetreau

PS - Straight Ahead!

3/07/2006 01:21:00 AM  

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